25 Yard (NSRA) target faces

[iainmaoileoin]

Is anyone else out there running on 25Yard NSRA target faces - prone (out to 4) and/or S+K (out to 1)?

I did try to do my own quick definition of a target face for 25 yards outward scoring,
BUT since I can only choose distances of 10m/25m/50m in the s/w I kind of got stuck.

I have not yet had time to go back and do the arithmetic for either 25y scaled to 25m or scaled to 50m (it is simple proportional triangles).
I dont know who would validate such work as correct.

Any clues/thoughts?

[[MEYTON CM] kathe]

Hello iain,

25 yard = 22,86 meter as this is not possible to select a solution would be to scale the target.

But without knowing the NRSA targets diameters this can only be performed by yourself.
If the documentation of the target diameters is accessible online a link would help us to assist you to do the required adjusments.
The adjustments is in my opinion only simple mathematics which can be simplified by e.g. an excel sheet.

What do you mean out to 4?

Best regards
Chris

[Peter Jones]

Chris / Iain

We've just taken delivery of an MF5R1/ESTA5 and have managed to get it working via the router. So far so good, after miraculously fast service from Sascha and DB Schenker delivery.

My reply on this topic is because there is no 25 yard NSRA option on the MF5R1 menu and still less the ideal option; a scaled 50m ISSF target that can be used at 25 yards to replicate 50m shooting for indoor, winter, short range match training.

Iain, it seems that you are proposing to define your own targets for 25 yards. Is that because you have additional software with your system meaning that you can design scale targets? I confess I'm a but confused about this, as I had understood that there were 25 yard options, so I would be grateful for any clarification on the availability of 25 yard NSRA and 25 yard scaled 50m target options for the ESTA5.

On a related point, the information about ESTA5 on the downloads section of the site indicates that software is automatically updated. This assumes internet connection, but is there another way to update the software to incorporate the alternative target face specifications?

Thanks in advance.

Peter

[iainmaoileoin]

Hi, continuing the email conversations.
We used the software for the master-computer to define target-scoring rings for 25 prone (kind of to 4 ring) and 25 S+K (to 1 ring) and then we pushed these definitions to our targets.

I dont know what to do if you dont have the master-computer.

Like you, I could see the NSRA bell target - but not a 25yard one. Seems strange. Perhaps the Germans think all we shoot is "bells"?

BTW the arithmetic/trig on 50m inward scoring ISSF and 25yard outward scoring NSRA means they are actually identical systems.

Not a helpful reply for you .... yet

[iainmaoileoin]

Chris,
We (Huntly) did our own target definition OK. Unlike the megalink kit - which has a "define a target" then "tell us the distance you are shooting at" - I
see that we dont do that with your software. I understand it.

"out to 4"

Our aiming mark at prone 25yard has some "funny definition", in that the rings are regular out to the 5, but any shot that touches the black aiming mark (outside the 5) scores a 4. This means the 4 ring is actually big. Anything beyond that area scores zero.

The same 25yard target - if shot standing or kneeling - counts all the way out to the 1 ring.

Megalink did a special NSRA 25yard prone and NSRA 25 yard S+K target definition.

If you are selling the kit in the UK then a 25yard, 20yard and 15 yard definition of the targets would be phenominally useful.

http://www.nsra.co.uk/index.php/home/re ... egulations
takes you to our rules.
Appendix A has the definitions - posted below
TARGET DIMENSIONS
Sizes of scoring rings for edge touching on NSRA Targets. All dimensions are in millimetres. The theoretical dimensions have been rounded to two places of decimals. Prevailing atmospheric conditions may affect target paper leading to minor differences between printed and theoretical dimensions.
RIFLE TARGETS
1989 SERIES - SHORT RANGE
Scoring Ring (Outward gauging - see Rule 5.1.7)
Value 25 yards
Centre Dot 1.00
1st scoring ring 12.92
2nd 20.23
3rd 27.55
4th 34.86
5th 42.18
6th 49.49
7th 56.81
8th 64.12
9th 71.44
10th 78.75
Aiming Mark 51.39

Rule 5.1.7
5.1.7 Outward Gauging. For outward gauging the value of the shot will be decided by the edge of the shot hole furthest from the centre of the target as determined by the use of the gauge. When the flange of the gauge touches the outside of the line, the lower value will be credited (See Figure 4 (appendix B)). Shots which touch the outside of the lowest value scoring ring have no value except for short-range prone targets which are scored according to 5.1.7.1.
5.1.7.1 On short-range prone targets only, where the last printed scoring ring is a 6, a shot outside the 6-ring but wholly contained within the aiming mark shall be scored as 5, and a shot touching the aiming mark shall be scored as 4. Shots wholly outside the aiming mark shall have no score value.

[[MEYTON] RG]

Hi,

there are already some NSRA 25 yard targets in the Meyton system. If you have a workstation, you should switch the country to "Great Britain" and the "Language" to "English" in the Language settings of the Meyton Control Center. When you then reset the database in the "Database" section of the Meyton Control Center, the database ist filled with the default disciplines for Great Britian. Actually these are the following:

NSRA 15yd 2x10
NSRA 15yd 2x10 pr.
NSRA 20yd 2x10
NSRA 20yd 2x10 pr.
NSRA 25yd 2x10
NSRA 25yd 2x10 pr.
NRSA 6yd Bell 5
NRSA 6yd Bell 6
NRSA 6yd Bell 7
NRSA 6yd Bell 10

You could also create your own targets. You have to convert yard into mm and put the values in the target editor of the "Discipline creation" program. Another important setting for you is setting the scoring method to "outer edge scoring" in the target editor. For the distance you could choose "25m" or "other". This setting has only influence on sorting.

Best regards,
Roman

[Peter Jones]

Thanks Roman

I have been working with Jurgen to resolve the 25 yard target questions and have some support@ tickets pending, but for wider assistance, this is the position as I understand it, with some requests included:

1. The 25 yard NSRA competitions in the Shootmaster library have two problems. They do not load across to the MF5R1. Building a new competition with a newly defined NSRA 25 yard target solved the first load problem, so when Meyton is loading frames with 25 yard NSRA targets for dispatch to ESTA5-Mobile only customers (i.e. those who do not have Shootmaster), please look again at that library items and make sure that they are loadable and loaded. The NSRA measurements are supplied by Iain in this string, plus a link to the NSRA website rules. These contain all the relevant NSRA distances and measurements.

3. The NSRA competition cards are generally 10 shot, not 20. It would help to incorporate 10 shot and 20 shot NSRA 25, 20 and 15 yard competitions in the library for prone (out to 5 or 4 ring) and standing/kneeling (out to 1 ring).

4. The NSRA target definition we have made shows 4 very large "10s" in the centre of the target. I hope that there is a way that these can be removed or be scaled down.

5. A useful feature of electronic targets is to allow simulated 50m training indoors at 25 yards during the winter. To achieve this, the ISSF 50m target needs to be scaled down and the calibre similarly scaled. While writing, the ISSF height calculation is also a factor in 25 yard 50m simulation. I have prepared a spreadsheet that shows the target definition measurements and height, based on a custom wooden stand that is flush with the bottom of the .22 shot protection plate. The calculations can be adjusted depending on the shooters floor to barrel centre height (i.e. for a shooter with a barrel height of 25 cm, the distance from the floor to the bottom of the protection plate needs to be about 36 cm to simulate a 50m target at with its centre at 100 cm above the floor (or about 59 cm floor to target centre if you prefer)). The scaling factor is 0.4572. The spreadsheet is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/q8hd3a5m39gfl ... .xlsx?dl=0 and the barrel height adjustment is marked in red and feeds the formulae and heights below it.

As distance scaling and target design is not a function available to Meyton users with ESTA5-Mobile only (i.e. without Shootmaster), it would be very helpful if Meyton would include 60 shot prone and 3x20 and 3x40 25 yard simulated/scaled ISSF 50m matches as standard for the UK market.

For this, the 25y scaled 50m ISSF target definition needs ring numbers. These don't render in the target we have made, as the scaling down seems to have this effect.

In the the 25y scaled 50m ISSF target the shot numbers are too large for the scaled down calibre, so ideally the shot numbers need to scale with calibre.

6. Some UK outdoor ranges (such as Worplesdon) are set up as 50 yards and due to the position of the butts, 50m can't be accommodated. For ISSF 50m equivalent shooting at these ranges, a scaling factor of 0.9144 would need to be adopted. As above, scaled 50 yard options would potentially be a helpful addition to the library that is supplied to ESTA5-Mobile only target customers. These calculations are also included in the spreadsheet.

7. ESTA5-Mobile doesn't yet allow for virtual pdf printing while on the range and the competition data is lost when the target is switched off. This is a problem. I understand that an ESTA5 upgrade will be ready soon that allows virtual pdf printing, so that a shot competition can be saved to the device immediately after shooting, to be printed through the device's normal print set up, rather than via a network printer connected to the target network (which is the only way at the moment).